PDA

View Full Version : ARM's own Hall of Fame


Thomas E
01-26-2010, 05:12 PM
As much as we all enjoy the various auto racing hall of fame venues . . .

How would it be if we here at ARM created

"Auto Racing Memories Hall of Fame"

for our ARM heroes, right here at ARM. Create a really nice opening number post with flags, trophy icons, and variety of cars.

Then each subsequent single post would honor a single member at a time.

Kind of a "This one's for you."

Olen McGuire
01-26-2010, 05:49 PM
Hey Thomas E, that sounds like a great idea. Maybe Webby could set up a seperate forum just for that. I for one would vote for that and I put my nomination in for Thomas to be President of the ARM Hall of Fame.~OLen :cheers:

webby
01-26-2010, 07:43 PM
Hmmm.... I like this idea.

But we would need some rules and such. We would need some criteria for entry and limitations of the amount of people that could be awarded such an honor each year.

Or should it be more of just a "free for all"?

Mitch G.
01-27-2010, 09:53 AM
This is a great idea, but I strongly recommend certain criteria for nomination and induction. I've read some great articles by long time racing columnists and historians and they make good points about HOF issues. For example, Glen Fitzcharles, a east coast sprint car racer was inducted into the National Sprint Car Hall of Fame, Kevin Eckert, long time writer, historian, and on the election board, was opposed to Fitzcharles induction because he got all his main events in one kind of winged limited sprint car, in one state, at very few tracks (sorry I don't have all the facts off the top of my head). I think a open wheel driver would have to have at least one national feature win, AAA, or USAC maybe the World of Outlaws. There could be sub-categories for guys who won lots of features, at one track, maybe they have to have a track championship to get in. Modifieds, late models, should have wins at more than one speedway, but not necessarily out of state?
Also we need to take into account driver adaptation, guys who raced from the 1930's to the 1970's, built there own cars, and engines, etc, pioneers of the sport so to speak. Here's what we need to avoid, hypothetically, a guy wins 10+ mains, over a 5 to 10 year period at one track, in one kind of car, lots of people love the guy, he's a great human being, etc. but does this qualify him for induction into a auto racing Hall of Fame? I'd vote for Thomas E as the first pres of the ARMHoF, with Olen as chairman. Just some ideas, great idea Thomas E !

Olen McGuire
01-27-2010, 10:48 AM
I'd vote for Thomas E as the first pres of the ARMHoF, with Olen as chairman. Just some ideas, great idea Thomas E !


Thanks Mitch, but no thanks as chairman. There are a lot more qualified ARM members than myself for a job like that. I would suggest, since it is not an "official" Hall of Fame, that the rules and regulations and criteria be stretched a bit, then once it becomes nationally recognized it could always be tightened up.~Olen :think:

webby
01-27-2010, 12:12 PM
Here are my ideas for criteria....

(please help me add, delete, and edit these)

- The person must be retired from racing at least 5 years.
- The person must have at least some degree of national recognition.

- The person must meet one of the two following conditions:
-- The person must have made a major impact in one form of racing (i.e., midgets, sprint cars, stock cars, etc.).
-- The person must have had success in multiple forms of racing.

Other items that might warrant HOF status:

- The person may have been a innovator in the sport and changed the sport in a positive way.
- The person may have dedicated their life to furthering the auto racing in some way.

I submit that each year we accept 5 nominations into the HOF and each year those five will be called the "ARM Fab 5, class of 2010". Each year the "Fab 5" will be made up of 4 drivers and at least one non-driver (promoter, car builder, announcer, track owner, etc.). I also submit that each year we pick the "low hanging fruit" (i.e., the obvious choices that nobody could disagree with, A.J. Foyt, Mario Andretti) but we also include at least one "dark horse" or "surprise" choice that is a bit less known but still had a huge impact on auto racing that way our HOF is a resource for learning about auto racing for folks that might have not heard of some of the "behind the scenes" kinda guys.

Our HOF can be WORLD-WIDE!!! No geographic limitations for us.

We will have a nomination process and then a team of pre-selected ARM members to make the final picks each year.

I agree that Thomas should be president and general "dude in charge". :D

Thoughts??

rapid30
01-27-2010, 12:55 PM
:cheers:I like it I think that this would be a cool deal, as there are many racers world wide that might get some local reconition but this might make more people aware of their accomplishments.
Bruce "rapid30" Rhoades

Mitch G.
01-27-2010, 12:58 PM
Five per year is a good idea, plus the builder, promoter, non driver is a great idea.
Do we limit car type per the group of 5? in other words, each year we consider a open wheel_open cockpit, modified (do we group coupes with supermods?), stock car, dragster, road course, etc. Or is it o.k. to have 2 midget guys, and 2 late model guys in a given year to the exclusion of other divisions? Just trying to make it fair to all interested groups. Or does car type even matter, maybe just the driver on his merits, regardless of his favored type of car. Retired for 5 years is also a good requirement. I'd say we put in a 6th inductee every year, that being the obvious past national hero's, A.J., Mario, Parnelli, etc. We do our 5 per year, and add a legend, each year?

webby
01-27-2010, 01:13 PM
Five per year is a good idea, plus the builder, promoter, non driver is a great idea.
Do we limit car type per the group of 5? in other words, each year we consider a open wheel_open cockpit, modified (do we group coupes with supermods?), stock car, dragster, road course, etc. Or is it o.k. to have 2 midget guys, and 2 late model guys in a given year to the exclusion of other divisions? Just trying to make it fair to all interested groups. Or does car type even matter, maybe just the driver on his merits, regardless of his favored type of car. Retired for 5 years is also a good requirement. I'd say we put in a 6th inductee every year, that being the obvious past national hero's, A.J., Mario, Parnelli, etc. We do our 5 per year, and add a legend, each year?Great ideas and thoughts.

I say we limit it to only 5 members each year but the first year (this year) we will award 15 HOF members and here's how....

We started ARM in Jan 2008, therefore we have been around three full years already. So our first year we can award for....

- 2008
- 2009
and of course...
- 2010

That's 15 drivers to start with so we can get some of the legends out of the way and in our HOF right off the bat.

We could spend the next few months working on the three years of entries.

Olen McGuire
01-27-2010, 09:23 PM
I recieved a message on my Skype account from a Robert Ralston that I would like to pass on to the members creating ARM's Hall of Fame.

"Hi: I saw your chatter about an ARM HOF. We started one in the Milwaukee area 4 years ago and its going Great Guns. Your biggest headache will be setting some rules that you can stick to and bending over backwards to be fair. No good deed goes unpunished. We are housed at the Wisconsin Automotive Museum in Hartford Wi. Google- Southeastern Wisconsin Short Track Hall Of Fame- to see the web site, though its about to upgrade big time. Our induction-annual dinner drew 600 on Nov 1. Three sellouts in a row. I'm on the 7 member board. Bob Ralston (Goodluck)"

To take a look at their site click Southeastern Wisconsin Short Track HOF (http://www.sewishorttrackhof.com/index.html)

webby
01-27-2010, 09:25 PM
I recieved a message on my Skype account from a Robert Ralston that I would like to pass on to the members creating ARM's Hall of Fame.

"Hi: I saw your chatter about an ARM HOF. We started one in the Milwaukee area 4 years ago and its going Great Guns. Your biggest headache will be setting some rules that you can stick to and bending over backwards to be fair. No good deed goes unpunished. We are housed at the Wisconsin Automotive Museum in Hartford Wi. Google- Southeastern Wisconsin Short Track Hall Of Fame- to see the web site, though its about to upgrade big time. Our induction-annual dinner drew 600 on Nov 1. Three sellouts in a row. I'm on the 7 member board. Bob Ralston (Goodluck)"

To take a look at their site click Southeastern Wisconsin Short Track HOF (http://www.sewishorttrackhof.com/index.html)Interesting.

I think our HOF will be more just for fun. Sorta like a bench racers HOF. :D

Olen McGuire
01-27-2010, 09:33 PM
You never know Webby, you might have created a National Bench Racers HOF. :banana:

Jerry Lee
01-28-2010, 10:40 AM
I think this is a neat idea guys. Nothing really "official", but just the ARM's fun little deal. My knowledge of auto racing is pretty limited to just this area (and some NASCAR), so I don't think I would be much help, but I know there are enough guys on here from other areas around the globe that could add a lot of neat information on people who should be recognized, and I can't wait to read and learn about them.


A.J. Foyt rules!:bow:

Flagman
01-28-2010, 01:27 PM
Here are my ideas for criteria....

(please help me add, delete, and edit these)

- The person must be retired from racing at least 5 years.
- The person must have at least some degree of national recognition.

- The person must meet one of the two following conditions:
-- The person must have made a major impact in one form of racing (i.e., midgets, sprint cars, stock cars, etc.).
-- The person must have had success in multiple forms of racing.

Other items that might warrant HOF status:

- The person may have been a innovator in the sport and changed the sport in a positive way.
- The person may have dedicated their life to furthering the auto racing in some way.

I submit that each year we accept 5 nominations into the HOF and each year those five will be called the "ARM Fab 5, class of 2010". Each year the "Fab 5" will be made up of 4 drivers and at least one non-driver (promoter, car builder, announcer, track owner, etc.). I also submit that each year we pick the "low hanging fruit" (i.e., the obvious choices that nobody could disagree with, A.J. Foyt, Mario Andretti) but we also include at least one "dark horse" or "surprise" choice that is a bit less known but still had a huge impact on auto racing that way our HOF is a resource for learning about auto racing for folks that might have not heard of some of the "behind the scenes" kinda guys.

Our HOF can be WORLD-WIDE!!! No geographic limitations for us.

We will have a nomination process and then a team of pre-selected ARM members to make the final picks each year.

I agree that Thomas should be president and general "dude in charge". :D

Thoughts??

I'm all for this HOF thing. But why national recognition? The are many local people who have done so much for the sport in this area, but they didn't receive any national focus.

I also think you need to open up the fields more. What about track officials that have worked for so many years without much recognition? How about a crew member that worked his butt off for the same team for many years? There are plenty of unsung heros out there that deserve some recognition.

I'd really like to see this take more a a local area HOF.

Mitch G.
01-28-2010, 05:40 PM
Depends on what kind of scope we want to cover regarding auto racing. Officials, and crewman are kind of objective choices, some officials, while being around a long time, did more harm than good. Every crewman feels he worked his butt off for the car owner or driver, and his wife or girlfriend would say "yeah, he was always working on the car, and never got any credit, blah, blah" Not to be demeaning, but pretty soon we will be nominating ticket takers, program sellers, beer vendors, etc. Since we are doing this for fun, more or less, my opinion is we keep it to track owners, promoters, announcers, car owners, and drivers. In my opinion, any auto racing hall of fame needs to include a listing of national champions, it gives you a baseline of the kind of people you want inducted into your hall. For instance, there are drivers who have won hundreds of main events, in one kind of car, in one state, on very few tracks, and never a win against a national touring series, but their win totals are huge. Then compared to say Parnelli Jones, his totals in midgets and sprints, and modifieds are not huge, though impressive, but his overall career is second to none, Indy 500 win, LA Times Grand Prix win in a Lola sports car, NASCAR cup wins, off road championships, Trans Am victory's, dirt tracks, rear engine, front engine, paved tracks, on and on, simply one of the top 3 race drivers of all time, ever. This gives you a "baseline" of comparison, just my thoughts.

Checkers
01-28-2010, 08:01 PM
Yeah, Go national Go global!
Yeah forget the little guy who made up the local scene. Poured out his blood, sweat, and tears not to mention the financial cost and the family sacrifice to run Englewood, Greeley or Lakeside or what ever track, week in and week out to who had or have the PASSION to compete. What about the guys could NOT afford to run two different classes at two different tracks but had the same DRIVE and dedication as say Herschel McGriff. Yeah explain all this to Shorty Weitzel or Bill Starks, Ronnie Lee or........
Yup, go National.

I'm outa here got to go play a game of

Checkers

webby
01-28-2010, 08:57 PM
Yeah, Go national Go global!
Yeah forget the little guy who made up the local scene. Poured out his blood, sweat, and tears not to mention the financial cost and the family sacrifice to run Englewood, Greeley or Lakeside or what ever track, week in and week out to who had or have the PASSION to compete. What about the guys could NOT afford to run two different classes at two different tracks but had the same DRIVE and dedication as say Herschel McGriff. Yeah explain all this to Shorty Weitzel or Bill Starks, Ronnie Lee or........
Yup, go National.

I'm outa here got to go play a game of

CheckersWe hear your sarcasm but truth be told there is already a hall of fame for local racing.

We certainly don't want to duplicate those efforts.

Checkers
01-30-2010, 04:55 PM
No sarcasm here just an old man who needs more fiber in his diet.
Besides I thought this site was some what a replacement for Colorado racing Memories.
And do you think that Don Styes the greatest flagman to ever drop the green flag would fit your criteria?

indybigjohn
01-30-2010, 06:50 PM
I'm not from that area, but I think an auto racing Hall of Fame for that area would be fantastic. I don't know Don Styes, but as an old flagman, I think there has been too little recognition given to those guys whose primary focus and responsibility is for the racers' safety. You have no idea how lonely that position can be at times.

Mitch G.
01-30-2010, 08:03 PM
Indybigjohn, I was an assistant flagman at a pretty decent midget show in Osborn, KS in 1989, (we had a 36 car field, from all over the mid-west, very competitive bunch, on a dangerous, dark, fast 1/2 mile dirt, scary place) let me tell you it changed my mind about that job. I think every driver, car owner, and other racing official should spend one night in the flag stand, especially at a dirt track. It should be required, you learn real quick to quit your bitching about most flag men after that. Yes Don Styes deserves to be in a hall of fame.

Checkers
01-30-2010, 08:36 PM
Mitch, You are correct, It's a thankless job and crew members do whine along with some of the drivers. But a good flagman can also be a great friend while in the tower.

Good nite all

indybigjohn
01-31-2010, 10:19 AM
Absolutely right, Mitch. I couldn't do it much with ASA or ARCA, but at the local tracks I found the best way to stop a lot of the whining was to invite the crew member, owner, driver, whatever, to spend a race or two with me in the flagstand. Soon the word would get around and others would want to do it. Pretty soon, the word also got around that it wasn't nearly as easy as it looked and the whining subsided. In fact, those who had been up there with me would often tell a newbie whiner to try it.

I have no regrets for the 30 years I spent flagging all over the country, and lots of memories of great friends I made along the way.

webby
01-31-2010, 06:39 PM
Besides I thought this site was some what a replacement for Colorado racing Memories.Yes and No.

Yes, we started this website because CRM unexpectedly closed up shop.

But...

No, we are not just a Colorado Racing Memories clone. We decided from the very beginning we would open this site up to racing memories from anywhere in the world.

Flagman
02-08-2010, 01:37 PM
I'm not from that area, but I think an auto racing Hall of Fame for that area would be fantastic. I don't know Don Styes, but as an old flagman, I think there has been too little recognition given to those guys whose primary focus and responsibility is for the racers' safety. You have no idea how lonely that position can be at times.


What a great comment! Having spent over 20 years flagging at local tracks, I couldn't agree more. Racers and teams forget that without a team of officials to oversee the program, nobody would be racing.

webby
02-08-2010, 05:18 PM
Absolutely right, Mitch. I couldn't do it much with ASA or ARCA, but at the local tracks I found the best way to stop a lot of the whining was to invite the crew member, owner, driver, whatever, to spend a race or two with me in the flagstand. Soon the word would get around and others would want to do it. Pretty soon, the word also got around that it wasn't nearly as easy as it looked and the whining subsided. In fact, those who had been up there with me would often tell a newbie whiner to try it.

I have no regrets for the 30 years I spent flagging all over the country, and lots of memories of great friends I made along the way.

What a great comment! Having spent over 20 years flagging at local tracks, I couldn't agree more. Racers and teams forget that without a team of officials to oversee the program, nobody would be racing.We agree with you guys. That's why (as we stated earlier in this thread) every year we would have 5 new HOF members and at least one of them would be a non-driver.