Vintage auto racing
Rat Rods for SaleRace Car Clip Art

Go Back   Auto Racing Memories | Vintage Race Cars > Auto Racing Memories > Modifieds

Modifieds The open wheel version of a stock car has a wide range of variations as well as the supermodfied which is a closer relative to the sprint car.



Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 11-17-2009, 08:47 PM   #1
dcarelli
Rookie
 
dcarelli's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Broomfield Colorado
Age: 48
Posts: 16
Default 32 Ford

Ok so looking back at all the old CARC photos and other cars around the country it seems that a greater number of CARC cars have always been a 32 Ford, 3 window, 5 window, and sedan. Where as if you look at other places they went on to 36's and 40's among others. Is this due to something in the rules or just preference?

Thanks,
Donny Carelli
dcarelli is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Old 11-18-2009, 09:16 AM   #2
Quick Time
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Northern CA
Age: 74
Posts: 327
Default Re: 32 Ford

Hey Donny,

I'll offer a brief explanation but I bet Professor Coupe will have the best and correct answer. The 32 frame had a 106 inch wheelbase while 33 and later are 6 inches longer at 112. The 106 length proved to be best on tight short tracks 1/5, 1/4 even good on 1/3. I know many of the Model A bodied cars were on a 32 frames. I also think the later bodies were heavier mass working against the center of gravity.

Hope this helps.

Chuck
Quick Time is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-18-2009, 09:28 AM   #3
Thomas E
Senior Member
 
Thomas E's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Houston
Posts: 413
Default Re: 32 Ford

I too offer the following . . .

If memory serves me right, in 1952, when the CARC moved permanently to the Lakeside Speedway a 1/5 mile oval, cars remained the same for only one year. Driver Pete Ducker discovered that the Ford 1932 3-window coupe could be had in factory trim with the venerable "Flathead V-8".

This more powerful engine inside a much smaller, lighter and more nimble car could easily outrun the other larger heavier coupes and sedans, and Ducker won the 1952 track championship going away.

Pete Ducker's final race.



Sorry this fuzzy, this a thumbnail of Pete Ducker's '32 Ford 5-window he ran at lLakeside. 1953. When I find my full 8 x10 photo I'll scan it and attach it. Pete is second from the left.
Attached Images
 



"Stay tuned for the greatest spectacle in racing" ~ Sid Collins

LAKESIDE - Late at night by the old Lakeside Speedway, you can hear the ghosts - The barking, crackling "Flathead Fords", the zinging "Chevy Stove Bolt's", The rumbling of the "KK-Offy's", and the snarling "Ford V8-60's". Listen and faintly hear the announcer say, "Ladies and gentlemen, the line up for the trophy dash," and the place would erupt with the mix echoes of cheers and boo's...Remember...

Last edited by Thomas E; 11-18-2009 at 09:36 AM.
Thomas E is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-18-2009, 09:30 AM   #4
carc7
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Westminster, Colorado USA
Age: 68
Posts: 237
Default Re: 32 Ford

Hello again, Donnie! In a few short, untechnical terms, the '32s came with flathead V-8s and were lighter than the later big cars from the late 30's and early 40's. They were also shorter and therefore more nimble through traffic. When the CARC came to Lakeside from Englewood in '52, many of the cars were still the bigger cars. Pete Ducker found that 32's with an "8" in the chassis number meant that it came with the V-8, and the HP/Weight ratio was much better, and the car could move through traffic much easier. Thus began the switch to the smaller '32s and Model A's, which came with 4-cylinder engines. The club then allowed cars to trade engines within the car family (Ford, Chevrolet, Hudson, etc.) and the V-8s found their way into the Model A chassis. This was the beginning of the "semi-modified" cars, rather than the "stock cars" that they were previously, because they truly were STOCK cars before that. This would have occurred during the late 1950's. By the time your Dad starting racing, they were really pretty well on the modified road, and Jerry Malloy was starting to build or modify the chassis with the specific intent of turning left.
carc7 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-18-2009, 02:43 PM   #5
lakeside #29
Senior Member
 
lakeside #29's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Wheat Ridge, Colo
Age: 72
Posts: 445
Default Re: 32 Ford

Donnie, part of the reason that newer model year cars were used in other parts of the country, especially on the east coast was lack of supply of the older cars. In rust belt states where, huge amounts of salt was laid on the streets in the winter the old cars got eaten up by rust. In western states like here in Colorado you could find early '30's cars more easily.
The '32 Ford didn't immediately take over, many '33 and '34 Fords were used up in the '50's and early '60's. As stated above the Deuce frame had a shorter wheelbase and was considerably lighter. The Deuce had a 2 crossleaf spring suspension which was a lot easier to set-up than a Chevy or a Plymouth which had 4 springs. The '32 Ford frame was stamped from 11 gauge (.120") steel was very strong and could take plenty of abuse. The rails were 6" high. There was a good bit of interchangeability on early Fords, so putting together running gear was pretty simple. As time went on the supply of bodies began to dwindle and you started to to see more Model A's. In the early '60's you could still find A's in farmer's fields. They supposedly were a lighter body. As for the Model A chassis, I personally don't remember anyone running one at Lakeside. They were lighter and not as suitable for a full size modified.
The frame rails were shorter and only about 4" high and narrower than a '32. They sat much higher in stock form than a Deuce. You would have to "Z" the rear of an A frame to lower it. "Z"ing is cutting the frame, usually just ahead of the rear end and adding a slightly angled vertical piece to it to bridge the gap. This would lower the main section of the frame. I'm sure Model A and Model T frames were probably used in earlry Jet coupes or early super modifieds.
As a kind of footnote, when I worked for Gene Plue in the early '70's he told me that in 1955 he had whole yard across the street from his shop full '32's and '34's that he was trying to sell. Most were complete and running. After one guy too many tried to chisel him on the price he got mad and scrapped the whole lot.



Chris Ertler - "professor coupe"
lakeside #29 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-18-2009, 03:55 PM   #6
parrot
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Age: 83
Posts: 327
Default Re: 32 Ford

Oh! Chris, I hate to hear stories like that, (the Gene Plue story) but I've heard them also, and know they're true. Look at what those things are worth now. I don't want to tell what I paid for one ten years ago, and they've at least doubled in price in the decade since. And that's just for a basket of parts. Finding one in a barn that is still mostly whole happens, but is rare. Just navigating some of the sites eluded to on this site shows that during those early years everybody used up a lot of good older cars for racing, but then, what else would they be used for? Had I been a little older then, I'd have done the same thing. More guys wanted them for racing than for hot rods.

Anyway Donnie, you've gotten a lot of good info from the others. I'll just add a little here. On the frames for the early coupes at Lakeside, because of the light construction of the model A frame, the CARC rulebook required '32 or new frames, even though bodies could be used back to 1928. (Probably why a lot of the old program features referred to the car as a "thirty two" when it appeared to the reader to be a Model A) One exception may have been the '31 Chevy. Not sure when that frame rule came into being, but remember one 1931 Chevy racing with the CARC as early as 1954. Guessing '31 Chevy frames were similar if not the same as those from '32 since those cars were pretty much the same generation. Not so with Ford. All new in 1932 with heavier frame as described by "professor coupe".

Another reason that '37-'40 were the car of choice on the east coast was the NASCAR affiliation. During the formative years (late forties into the sixties) the Sportsman and Sportsman Modified cars were required to use bodies with 'turet' top construction, that is, no open top that had been filled with that tar like covering found mostly on automobiles from 1936 on back. GM bodies were the exception back to the '35 Chevy Master. Other organizations, such as the CARC, allowed the older models as long as those openings in the tops were covered with sheet metal. Just needed a way to exit the car in those days, so kept at least one of the doors operationsal, tied closed with a belt during a race. Somewhere around 1957, that rule was relaxed, bodies were trimmed out even more leaving just a 'skin', doors welded shut to add ridgidity to the body and the tops left open as way out in an emergency. The jalopy circuits from Kansas to Texas, and California had already been doing this. As others have said, the '32-'34 cars were lighter, and also the factory engine set-back was more conducive to handling. I explained this a little more in depth in the "Thirty Four Ford Story", on this site elsewhere.

Last edited by parrot; 11-18-2009 at 03:58 PM. Reason: Spelling
parrot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-18-2009, 05:05 PM   #7
dcarelli
Rookie
 
dcarelli's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Broomfield Colorado
Age: 48
Posts: 16
Default Re: 32 Ford

WOW, You guys are awesome. I just learned alot. I hope this was informative for someone else as well.....
dcarelli is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-18-2009, 11:43 PM   #8
dcarelli
Rookie
 
dcarelli's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Broomfield Colorado
Age: 48
Posts: 16
Default Re: 32 Ford

Ok so one more dumb question along those same lines. Looking back to the 1960's and on you really don't see the Ford Mustangs really used. As either late models in the 60's and 70's or as bombers in the 80's and 90's.
dcarelli is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-19-2009, 06:17 AM   #9
carc7
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Westminster, Colorado USA
Age: 68
Posts: 237
Default Re: 32 Ford

Donnie: I know just a few things about Mustangs vs. Camaros. First, Ford overhead valve V-8s are a little heavier than Chevy. Performance parts were easier to find, and less expensive, for the Chevvies than the Fords in the early years. Camaros had a slightly wider stance, making for better cornering. I know that Wayne Stallsworth drove a really nice, and fast, Mustang for Doenges-Glass. Also, Fords took a lot more machine work to get to breathe better, because in the case of the 351, the ports were 1/2 of the length of the intake runner. Ford factory intake manifolds were also MUCH heavier than Chevy. Maybe some more of the experts can add more info.
carc7 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-19-2009, 08:42 AM   #10
Mitch G.
Senior Member
 
Mitch G.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Ponte Vedra Beach, FL
Age: 60
Posts: 1,106

Default Re: 32 Ford

Auto Racing Memories has the best "Faculty" on the net, every time I read these posts I learn things I never knew before! The old saying "Those who can, do. Those who can't, teach" The difference between our "Teachers, and Professor's" is that they can, and did!
Mitch G. is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 06:39 PM.



Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.